We met Anti-Product while driving Diskonto around the East Coast last fall and were extremely impressed by how serious this band takes their music and politics. Anti-Product were nearing the end of their own U.S. tour when they stopped in Minneapolis for a show at the Insur-Recreation Center, where this interview took place. Representing the P.E. Team are Jon and Dan. Anti-Product is: Tiana-vocals, Chris - Guitar and vocals, Matt - Bass, Dave - Drums
PE: Anti-Product has a sound, and graphical style for your
records, that is comparable to such bands as Aus-Rotten and Mankind. Was
this intentional?
Chris: I know that was something we were all really into when we first saw those bands and started this one. That was the type of stuff we were listening to when Anti-Product first started.
Tiana: As our tastes grow to include new styles of music then our band grows too. A lot of people have told us our music sounds different on the first 7" and the second 7".
Chris: It has to do with the area we live in. We're in between Connecticut and Pittsburgh in upstate New York. There's not a lot going on there so we would have to travel to Pittsburgh or New York City to see shows.
Tiana: One of the main reasons we got into those bands is because they are near us and more tangible than some other bands like from the West Coast.
Chris: There's a lot of people in Binghampton who are into
the same kind of stuff and got into it at the same time. A lot of people
got into it back when The Pist and Mankind were still together and they
came and heavily influenced a lot of people in the scene.
PE: Do you get a lot of shit for taking such an obvious political stance?
Tiana: Yeah, I think our political ideologies tend to turn a lot of people off - they see us as being "P.C." They're not really ready to challenge the socialization within themselves and they just want to stay away from it and "have a good time." Our feeling is that having a good time is great, but there's also a more important agenda.
PE: Does being overtly political actually hinder getting your point across some times?
Chris: Well it depends. Sometimes it's actually pretty awesome. Like we played in Ashland, Oregon and a lot of the people were already into the same kind of politics.
Tiana: Yeah, it was kind of like we continued the ideas and helped reiterate the politics they were already into. I think a lot of people who are really active in political stuff tend to get burned out and it's nice to hear a band that inspires you to keep going.
Chris: But also there are times when people just leave because we talk about politics between our songs. They just look at you like "huh?" and walk away.
Tiana: I don't know how many times we've heard "Shut up and play!"
[laughter]
Tiana: I still think it's important to say what we have to say. I think the numbers of political bands, at least where we're from, is diminishing and it's important to keep that going. To me it's all about having fun, but also to spread knowledge with each other in a way that is more D.I.Y. and more righteous than the mainstream.
PE: Do you feel like you can ever project your ideas outside of the punk scene?
Chris: I think maybe the best way to get ideas across is simply to talk to people. We played this whole May Day "Day of Action" event at the university and most people didn't like the music, but they responded really well by talking.
Tiana: I think punk and hardcore is just one small way of getting across a political message, and tends to be a weak one at times. I think people have to realize that there is other more important ways of getting through to people. I honestly think that most of the people who need to hear this message, the people that need to be working to create revolution, generally speaking aren't within the narrow confines of white, middle-class punk and hardcore scene. We do other things like Food not Bombs to try to break down social-economic barriers and try to come together in other ways within the community.
PE: What are some of the other things you do to spread ideas aside from the band and music?
Chris: Well, there's Food not Bombs which just started up.
Tiana: There is also an animal liberation group at home which we work through, doing different stuff like protests and pamphleting.
Chris: Actually, when we were in Portland we went to two animal rights demos.
PE: have you been harassed by the authorities because of your political actions?
Chris: Not really in Binghamption, except when the circus comes to town, they don't want us near the arena.
Tiana: It's a small town and they really seem too busy sitting at the donut store to really pay attention to us.
PE: Has this tour helped inspire you to keep your political ideals going?
Tiana: We have been so inspired. I have this book in which I write down every idea as I get them. Now I want to go home and just do everything. I think that's a problem we all have; we just take on too many projects, demos and stuff like that.
Dave: Yeah, driving through the mountains and seeing all of the clear cuts in Oregon and Washington really puts it into perspective.
PE: Have you noticed that the punk scene in general has gotten a lot less politicized? Its one thing to try to reach outside the punk scene but sometimes don't you feel you have a big enough workload bringing out your ideas even within the scene?
Chris: Yeah, especially back home where this anti-political things seems to be growing really popular with all these "street punk" bands becoming popular. Sometimes I'd rather just play out of town, but it's good when we do [play at home], because sometimes people will argue with us between every song. That's still good because at least it's bringing out all these issues that wouldn't normally be talked about. We even get letters from people in Binghampton and they've said "I'm glad you said that because it made me think about it more." Also, all over there does seem to be this growing a-political thing going on.
PE: So you get a backlash from people at shows, saying you're "P.C."
Tiana: Almost every one!
Chris: Yeah, that's what we've been labelled so everyone
that's anti-P.C. hates us already. I guess they need to grab onto something
so that anti-P.C. thing is their movement or group to belong to... I don't
know.
Tiana: Yeah, it's not just in our hometown either. I find it really incredible how many cities we have been to this far that we get this. Like I sing songs about feminism and we get people who say "Fuck Feminism" or "Fuck you femi-nazi!" and "Shut up and play!" I was more surprised than anything. I expect that from small towns, but we've gotten it in some bigger places too. I think it's unfortunate, but I also have to put it into perspective, again, that the punk scene is just one very small faction in society. I mean it's definitely an important tool, for myself and the band, but it's not the only one and there's definitely other way to get through to people.
PE: Are you discouraged by the fact that there is such a really small minority of active women punks in the movement?
Tiana: We actually did a tally of how many bands we played with that had women in them. So far we've played with 58 different bands on this tour and only six of them had women in them. For me that was really quite shocking because it seemed less of a problem until I saw the statistic.
Chris: Yeah it didn't seem like that when we were playing the shows but looking back at the list it was quite different.
Tiana: One of the good things about us talking in between songs is that we can bring up these issues. Like the fact that sexism still exists within the punk movement, even though there is this myth that it doesn't. A lot of women have come up to me after our set and have said "Wow, that was really great." and "Thank you for talking about it." It think that's really nice, but there definitely still needs to be more bands and people talking about it. I think more women need to be taking part and attending punk rock shows.
PE: How can greater participation by women be encouraged?
Tiana: Even just by having a band with women in it and talking about these issues which pertain specifically to women's repression. I think also that it's not just a women's thing, but everyone needs to challenge it, including men. I think a big part of punk and hardcore is this really macho thing and women don't really feel welcomed. I think we just need to keep calling out to people to recognize the problem and change it.
PE: I think it does take women to bring up the issue because men usually won't recognize the problem on their own.
Chris: Yeah, but men need to create a more friendly environment where women will be welcome. A lot of times at shows there will be some big guy dancing up front and all the women will be in the back or be trampled on and be hurt. Something has to be said about that.
PE: Even in Minneapolis it's still like that too. You'll have 50 or 60 people who want to enjoy the show and then two or three big guys start kicking everyone's' ass and the whole place clears out.
Tiana: On this tour I have really noticed how much
sexism still exists within the punk and hardcore scene. I'm planning to
do some writings for different zines to talk about this more. We've really
experienced some harsh shit like rude, obnoxious, sexist jokes and the like.
At the Goleta Fest and these two women came up to me after our set and said
"We're so glad you came here. We just had this incredibly sexist encounter
with this band and there was nobody here to support us." I think it's
incredible that there are all these people who claim to be anti-sexist,
anti-racist, and anti-homophobic, but when it comes to
challenging it within their own movement they just distance themselves from
it. It's so wild that it can just take one woman coming to really make a
difference.
PE: A lot of people will just ignore a problem because it's the easiest thing to do.
Chris: I think going out on tour this summer has really put a lot of this in perspective. I almost expect to see this kind of shit where we're from, because it's a small town, but it seems to be a problem everywhere.
Tiana: It's really a reflection of the majority of society in general.
PE: It seems to be like that everywhere. Minneapolis has a reputation for being a really active punk scene, but even herewe still have to deal with this sexist, macho shit all the time. It's just and endless struggle.
Tiana: Yeah, it's a small portion of the bigger problem in every day society. I mean not only do I experience sexism within the punk scene, but when I go to work I experience sexism, when I go to school I experience sexism. It's just a reflection of what's really going on in society. It's definitely something that needs to be challenged within the punk and hardcore movement, but everywhere else too.
Chris: I guess seeing this stuff going on in everyday life is expected, but when you see it in the punk scene too it's really disappointing.
Tiana: I think there are a lot of people who think that you can just put on an anti-sexism patch, or declare themselves to be anti-sexist, that it absolves you of all sexism. I feel that we've all really been socialized in this sexist society sincere the day we were born, the day we set foot on this earth, and it's going to take a lot more than just sewing on a patch and that makes everything OK. Sexism is something all of us are going to be struggling with until the day we die.
PE: It really takes a lifetime to break down the barriers which your were taught. Nobody wants to keep their defense mechanisms up 24-7, but you still need to challenge people on these things all the time.
Chris: Yeah, it's not easy being the "asshole" all the time, because that's what people perceive you to be when you say something.
Tiana: I think another issue which people seem to ignore is the racism within the movement. One thing that was nice about visiting the West Coast was that there was a lot of Latino and Mexicanos within the punk scene. To me that is very contrasting to the scene that is one the East Coast. New York City is a little more diverse, but over all it's a really white-oriented scene. Being a Puerto Rican woman in the punk and hardcore scene, it is kind of nice to feel a little more sense of diversity. Still though, when you look at the punk and hardcore scene, it is still really white oriented and I think we all need to start questioning and looking at why that is, look at which doors we need to open to people of other different races. I'm not sure if I have a tangible answer to that, but I think there are still people who don't think that racism still exists even after you say that you are not racist. Again, it's a constant struggle and I think it's an issue that is a little more touchy. I think a lot of people still have a lot of internalized racism inside of them and if they recognize this they will automatically get the finger pointed at them. It's really a major problem that will probably always exist and a lot of people in the punk and hardcore movement haven't even begun to challenge it. I see so many people with anti-Nazi patches, but even still when you look around us you have to wonder where are all the Black people, where are all the Latino people, where are all the Asian people, Native Americans, etc? There's just barriers; doors we are not opening, things we are not talking about.
PE: It may also be because of the music. Groups like ARA have done Hip Hop events where they get people from all ethnic backgrounds attending.
Tiana: From my own observations I think punk get's lumped in with heavy metal and hard rock in general as a very white thing by the mainstream media. This may be something that helps make some people feel really uncomfortable. Also, I grew up in a really white suburban area and I still have trouble relating to other people of color in urban areas. Other people have told me they have the same experience.
PE: Also, there are certain peer pressures that keep people from crossing the bridge between the races. I know some people in the scene who have gotten a lot of shit from their friends and family for hanging out with a bunch of white punks.
Tiana: Yeah, I've heard that from my cousins who call me a "cracker" or something. I think one important way to deal with that is to stress the political side of the punk scene; something where we can really open up a door... [the interview was briefly interrupted at this point]
PE: What are some plans in the near future of Anti-Product?
Dave: A third 7" record.
Neil from Tribal War is going to do it and it's going to be a benefit for
a tour he is trying to organize next summer. He's going to go to all of
the primate research centers around the country and spend like four or five
days in each city, organizing protests, doing workshops and shows, basically
trying to bring some light to the subject of primate research. So the third
seven inch basically deals with the subject of animal rights and it's going
to be a benefit for that tour, to raise money for gas and food.
PE: You did your first record yourself and the second on Tribal War; which way do you think it worked out the best?
Dave: It benefits both ways.
Chris: The first one was actually supposed to be done by this local label-the name is actually on the corner of the record cover-but he didn't really end up helping us out on the first pressing. It just didn't work out and we got tired of waiting, so we put it out ourselves. It was pretty satisfying to do it, to work on the whole thing, but Neil can get better distribution than we can. With our first record we basically sent them to Neil anyway, so letting him do the second record definitely had the benefit of better distribution. For that first record we really had to scrape up all the money and now we're really in debt.
Tiana: We also want to do an LP [which will come out on PE/Skuld].
PE: Anything to add or say to the readers?
Tiana: Thanks to Neil, our pirate!
Chris: Yeah, he's definitely helped us out a lot. I guess we should really say thanks to everyone who's helped on this tour, set up shows, put us up, or cooked for us. That's given us a reallygood sense of community by helping us out.
Anti-Product / 1012 Powers Road / Conklin, NY 13748