I guess I should write an intro duction to this. I spent 4 months in Brasil travelling the whole country and meeting lots of rad punks. While I stayed in the city of Sao Paulo, I decided to write an interview with Execradores, one of the older and definately influential bands of the 90's in Brasil. There isn't much that the U.S. punk scene knows about the scene in South America, so hopefully after this somewhat in depth interview, some of you readers will be interested in learning more. Some of the things may sound weird, but that is because of the translation. I may not agree with everything said here, but do feel this is a very relevant and important text. Read and enjoy. [Kerry]
P.E.: First off, could you give us a brief history of the band. What does the name "Execradores" mean?
Execradores: Execradores first appeared in 1991, with a very different formation than it is today. They passed through several musical phases and also had many problems with having a place to play, and equipment to use. Now, many problems have been resolved with a colective effort, where the bands "Metropolixo", "Amor Protesto Y Odio!", and "Execradores" joined equipment, and their ideas, and today we use a space together. This collective work has made us mature a lot and now we see this collectivity as something essential for a great organization.
Owed to this collective work we were able to release a compilation demo tape called "Muito alim do Barulho"(much more than noise) with the bands "Metropolixo", "Desertor", "Atitude Consciente" and "Execradores" (no longer available), a split demo of "Execradores" and "Metropolixo" called "Ideologoicamente Perigosa"(Dangerous ideology), and an 12" LP compilation with 10 anarchist bands from brasil, and a split 7" by "Execradores" and "Metropolixo" on Darbouka records from France.
An execrador is someone who doesn't keep inside the hatred that he or she feels. This is what we feel when we see all the social injustices: sexism, homophobia machoism, the killing of innocent and defenseless animals, etc. We looked for a name that demonstrates all the things we feel and we think "Execradores" is ideal for it.
P.E.: What are the political beliefs of the band? Are you, and if so how, active in the anarco-punk scene?
Josimas:I'm an anarchist for political
position and believe that human liberation only will be possible through
the freeing of predujices and authoritarian thinking. I believe inthis ideology
and fight to see it in practice in the fastest way possible. Sure, we can't
hurry, because there is the chance of commiting an error and seeing all
of our efforts lost.
For myself, to be active in the anarco-punk scene is to try to live the anarchist thinking day by day. The punk culture, to myself, is essential because in it we develop fanzines, music, leaflets, collective living, and last, our own culture with autonomy. The most important is to have knowledge of what we do. This way, we'll be learning for the future.
Paulo:I beleive in the anarchist principles, in a free organized society, in a spontaneous and cooperative form. I look for a revolution in two ways: The first is an individual internal revolution in ones self, a personal rupture with the laws and standards of any authoritarian system. The second, consequence of the first, a revolution( armed) of the oppressed, free of the burgois values and with cooperativism inside itself, against the oppressors. And it should not be delayed any longer.
To be active is to work daily to make the fight against the oppression the fastest and greatest; to build, to produce a culture and subsist alternative ways; to show that a society, free of competition and predujices is possible; to show to people that things could be better and that this betterment depends on all of us.
Sadol: I yearn and fight daily for a new organization where the education, the consumption and the productions satisfy all collective and individual nessecities. And organization stabilized by love , solidarity and comprehension. Where there'll be no god,state or any other authoritarian symbols; Where my yearning will be satisfied by the conquering of my, of your, of our daily fight.
P.E.: Here in the U.S. we are just now learning about the scenes in Brasil, and other South American countries. Why do you think this is?
Paulo: There are several facts; but the postage price and the language barrier are really the greatest. But people are always trying more and more to learn another language, contact people, and I believe that in a short time we'll have a greater interchange.
Josimas:The Brasilian punk scene started in mid '78 and had many barriers for ideological motives and for stupid quarrels. Bands have always existed (few or many) and there has always been a demonstration somewhere. Since 1990, the punk movement started to have a few new forms of organization, through collectives and groups, and this made our culture much stronger.
Here, the postage price is so expensive, and there is great difficulty in writing in other languages, which is, in my opinion, what has happened to make the punk scene somewhat unknown to the U.S.
Sadol: It happens to be a grave fault in our organization, the communication lack. But we must not blame ourselves totally, because our reality is cruel, there are great financial problems and we can't forget that technicalogical and cultural development follow the capitalist way. Because of this, the knowledge of other languages is almost inaccessible for a great part of the population, and it includes the punks. The knowledge access is very precarious and it is, with no doubt, a great barrier to be broken (and it has been)
P.E.: What is everyday life like in Brasil? Is it difficult being a punk in Brasil?
Sadol: Living in São Paulo, Brasil is very hard, we live, or better, survive in a poor capitalist country that since its "discovery" is positioned as just an international exploration colony. More than ever now, we face a great socio-economic crisis, very low salaries, unemployment, thousands of homeless families, the educational system is totally bankrupt, the working class is totally massacred for a little bourgois caste. The hunger and misery get greater day by day, and everything is consequence of a cold, neo-liberal and callous governmental system that maintains itself at the expense of others.
Paulo: We live in a country with great unemployment, illiteracy, taxes, etc.. Poor people don't have access to education, culture, spare time, medical treatment. In many areas, children die due to sicknesses that could be easily prevented with things like basic sanitation and nourishment. There is a great political repression. I imagine that anywhere, a person who breaks the morals, behaviors, asthetic norms and looks for change, will be reprimanded for making themselves a menace. In Brasil its no different either; the population suffers due to the lack of information and manipulation. Also it discriminates us( but we're taking back, bit by bit, the populations understanding). And also here, punk gangs and nazi-skinheads muddle things up very much.
Josimas: Here lifes very hard because we have a basic salary of $100.00 a month U.S. money, and the merchandise is very expensive. We often have to work Monday through Friday from 7 to 5 and still take buses that delay us 2 hours a day also. Its not easy to make a moderate living in Brasil, and to get it, we have to work too much. To be punk in São Paulo is hard, because there is a lot of repression from police, society, family and also disagreements with nazi-skinheads. There are also punk gangs( false punks) that are nationalists, homophobics, sexists, etc..and fighting against these stupid ideas many times end up in conflicts between us, anarco-punks, and these gangs.
P.E.: What kind of problems do you have nazi
Skinheads?
Josimas: The Brasilian skinheads are all tied with the fascist parties or are super-nacionalist and they hunt us because we're anarchists and spread to the people the bad thing that fascism, nazism, and nationalism are. They're homophobics and machoists, and we criticize them very much because of this. For them, there is no diologue, just violence. They have good guns. This makes us respond and take offense because we can't be stopped by these stupid and authoritarian people.
They are almost everywhere in Brasil. There are many of them and in some places they are very organized. However, there is a focused resistence everywhere in the country also.
Sadol: In brasil we have a great problem with skinheads. There are no S.H.A.R.P. members here; all skinheads here are nationalists, fascists or neo-nazis. And as I'm sure you know, we don't have conciliation with these individuals, on the contrary, what has been happening nowadays are several conflicts. They're everywhere in the country, some more organized, others not so, but the problem is that they must be combated.
Some Brasilian fascist bands to boycott are: Virus 27, Histeria, Dose Brutal, Kaos 64, Pissichi Possessor, and Garotos Podres.
Paulo: Conflicts often happen with skinheads. They're like used like "cannon-bushing" by fascist/nationalist parties. Due to our practice of spreading the internationalism, equality, that is opposed to what they deliver, we're the target of conatant threats and some of us have a head prize.
Some time ago( September 23rd, '95), a conflict occurred between skinheads and punks and I'm happy to tell you that there is one less fascist in the world. The sad thing is that a friend, that was'nt involved in the this conflict is under lawsuit as the accused of being the co-author of the murder.
In spite of all these problems, we're reacting and acting against the fascist terror.
P.E.:Here in the U.S. many Anarchists believe that punk music has no revolutionary value and is nothing more than white middle-class music. What role do politics play in your music?
Paulo: Hardcore is a cultural expression of punk. Punk is internationalist and one of its proposalsis the union of all people and cultures around the world. Its totally ridiculous to say that hardcore is music for the white , middle class; it smells like rascism to me.
Hardcore is a cultural expression of anarchism and I can't see these seperated. HC is more than music, its a group of attitudes in favor of freedom... like anarchism.
Here are many bands that call themselves punk/HC, but don't work, in any way, for anarchism and still are sexist, homophobic, and totally capitalist. Some bands are also fascist.
I can tell you some: D.F.C., Extremamente Irritante, Scum Noise, R.D.P., Colera, Innocentes (fascist), Olho Seco, and Kaos 64 (fascist)
Because they call themslves Punk/HC, they muddle up things a lot and corrupt the punk movement, so we encourage you to boycott. If you believe that Punk/@/HC is a serious thing and not a game for money and fame, don't take/buy things of these bands.
Josimas: In my opinion, the two things walk together hand in hand. I can't see punk music seperated from anarchist context. The punk/HC music is internationalist, anti-discrimination and carries a feeling of revolutionary rebellion. For me, it takes a part in the anarchist ideology. For me , the bands that aren't anarchists are just musical bands and haven't anything to do with punk/HC
Sadol: I believe that Punk/HC music has quite a lot in common with anarchist politics. First because it's anti-commercial music and for its social intervention. And,Second, because the punk culture is based in liberatarian principles.
P.E.: Are any or all of you vegetarians? Is this difficult for you in Brasil?
Sadol:I don't consume meat or leather products. I've done this now for three years and haven't had great difficulties. My choice is not just personal, its a political choice because its a way that I found to boycott one great pillar of capitalism. The murder industry of animal exploitation, forest devastation, the greenhouse effect, the breakdown of the ecological equilibrium, hunger and destruction.
Paulo: I don't consume meat/leather, besides not being a natural way of eating, including health problems, there are several problems like food scarcity, or the planet temperature elevation that could be resolved or eased with the end of meat consumption. I still eat eggs, milk and derivitives but I try not to buy these products from large industries, who really exploit and kill animals. I also know that animals have feelings, emotions, desires,etc...to kill them is to commit a crime.
Its hard to be vegetarian here. Foods like soy aren't easily found and food is one of the most expensive products here. Another great problem is that personal hygiene, industrialized food (margarine, katsup,etc..) and other things are from two or three large industry monopololies and these industries practice animal testing. Its very hard to boycott them because theres no alternative products, the alternatives on the market cost four or five times more.
Josimas:I don't eat meat, try not to use products that contain animal derivatives, and try to only eat fruits and vegetables and still eat milk and cheese. I try to buy these things in small places so that there will not a great profit and exploitation.
Maintaining a vegetarian life in Brasil is very hard because some vegetables are very expensive and its hard to find them. Most of the population is addicted to meat and meat derrivatives. Its terrible because we have malnourished people with very poor health, and many animals are dying to satisfy their killer desires. We can't ignore the killing of animals any longer, thats enough!!
P.E.: Within the punk scene,
do you have a lot of problems with sexism and homophobia? Do you have a
strong feminist movement?
Josimas: As I said in another question, there are false punk gangs that are very machoist, sexist, homophobic and we're against these ways of thinking because they are contradictory to @/punk.
We do our propaganda in favor of the rights of homosexuals and women, and these gangs don't like it,so there are conflicts that are usually tense discussions and sometimes they end in physical violence.
Here, the feminist movement inside the punk movement is very decentralised and acts sporatically. Theres agoo d fanzine "Libertacão Feminim"(Female Liberation) and another that for a long time I haven't seen, "Pandora". The feminist movement was started by individual actions, where the women steadied their positions day by day at home, at work... but as an organized group, its weak.
Sadol: No, nowadays we don't face this kind of problem, people that form the anarco-punk scene ( at least in this area) are coherent and evolved in what they do. Homophobia, sexism, for us are social drugs, and they don't have a place in our scene; we exclude them.
In the punk movement there are nowadays, very few people dedicated specifically to feminism. A large part of feminism groups are connected with parties or governmental institutions. The fight for female liberation is certainly our fight too, so we'll always be sympathetic to the fight and defend the equality and insubmissiveness of our companions.
Paulo: Inside the anarco-punk scene I don't see homophobia or sexism; everyone (for the most part) defends sexual freedom and the individual persons rights. Sure, sometimes someone appears, interested in manipulating peoples feelings, just wanting sex...but when discovered, are boycotted, ignored, until they leave the scene that they never took part in.
The feminist question is approached daily, and the women (and some men) fight for equality of the individual. Nowadays, there are a few groups who return to this question.
A large part of feminist groups in Brasil are involved with political parties and by working with power and laws, reproduce and encourage a society where neither the women or the men are superior.
P.E.: What do you think of western
religions like the Mormons invading the smallest of villages in North Brasil?
Paulo: The little villages in Northern Brasil are very isolated from each other which can justify the great quantity of different religions. Due to its lack of communication with the rest of the world, It's very easy for a religious leader to manipulate and convert a group of people.
It's necessary to fight against all religion, because of their metaphores, prohibitions, promises, etc..They transform humanity to a resigned state, to an obedient slave and to a great producer of wealth.
Josimas: I'm against any religion, because they just enslave the human mind, looking for the wealth of some religious leader.
Brasil is a country formed by immagrants of several parts of the world, and each one brings a religious belief and they try to spread it where they live.
With the Amazonian people, its too easy, because there the people don't have a lot of information and are very naive. It makes it easy for any religion to penetrate the area there.
Sadol: It's really sad, if in the big cities, where the culture and information level is a little higher. There is theft and manipulation by the damn religions. What can we say about the small villages, by their choice or not, are very isolated from our world and because its difficult for them to have access to knowledge of human sciences; it makes them easy victims of opertunist religious colonizors.
The fight, anti-clergical, athiest or anti-authority (however you want to define it) must be spread to these areas, to prove to these people, through the argument offered scientific materialism, the inexistence of god and then make them free of oppression, dogmatization and divine exploration. Long live revolution, death to leaders, gods and myths.
P.E.:In Sao Paulo I know there is an enormous amount of homeless; What sort of problems are there?
Sadol: Once again, the problem comes from the socio-economic system, from the capitalist social organization structure. The native question has always been a great problem in this country. Now, the capitalist development, in the forms of neo-liberal government, the situation is much worse. The social inequality is so great that it leaves the majority of society with minimal surviving conditions. Then men, women, and children, in short, entire families are left homeless and hungry and without living perspectives.
And if it wasn't enough, the cruel "life" that those people are forced to the life that these people are forced to live, mant times they become victims of violent massacres ordered by the state and its repressive institution the military police, who do their dirty job very well, being the bourgoisies' watchdog; defending the property usurped from the people by the parasite bourgois mob. Thats enough! Stop social injustice, stop the military. Society with equality and social organization is made with freedom and respect for the rights of all beings.
Paulo: We live in capitalist country thats often in crisis, which generates, as I said before, unemployment and marginalization. People find themselves forced to live in the streets, eating the leftovers or charities of societys consumption. This problem also forces the people to abandon their children, who continue living in the streets where they start to steal to survive. Massacres happen often, done by the police or by professional killers (who work for the police) contracted by areas businessmen, intended to "clean-up" the area. These slaughters happen often and children are killed daily by this.
The murderous military from Brasil are never condemned for their crimes because they're judged by the military justice. The military police is autonomous in the society.
Josimas: In Brasil, 90% of the population is poor in this 90%, 15% live in the streets and 30% live in shacks. People who live in the streets form families that live asking for money, selling paper found in the garbage or eating restaurants leftovers that they find in the garbage, etc.. Many times due to hunger some of them steal food. The police hunt them in a cowardly way, killing many of them at one time, mainly the children, who are defenseless.
P.E.: Additional comments, etc.?
Josimas: I want to thank everyone who reads this interview and would like for people disagree with our opinions to write us and talk with us, because we don't think of ourselves as the masters of the truth. In the end of this interview are addresses of bands and @ groups.
Sadol: Thanks to Kerry and others from Profane Existence and everyone who gave us attention up until now. Execradores is waiting for contacts for discussion, information, trades and everything.
We're waiting for your letters and take this oppertunity to say that beyond band activities we also work with a label called "Esperanza Graraciones", a distributor of EP's, LP's, cassettes, t-shirts, papers, magazines, books, etc.. Collectives, bands, individuals, animals....get in touch, and please, if possible, send an IRC. Health, freedom and resistence!
Paulo: Thanks to Profane Existence for this space, especially to our new friend Kerry, and to you who reads this, and are interested in what have to say.
We are waiting for your contact. If you want to trade more ideas or material, write first, and please send IRC's if possible. We are poor and postage is very expensive! Remember that a society free of oppression will only exist if we work and fight for it. It won't improve if all we do criticize; we need to produce! Kisses for everyone!
Execradores
Caixa Postal 22542
Sao Paulo - SP CEP 04798-970
Brazil
